A clean, lightweight alternative to Python's twisted? [closed]

Question

A (long) while ago I wrote a web-spider that I multithreaded to enable concurrent requests to occur at the same time. That was in my Python youth, in the days before I knew about the GIL and the associated woes it creates for multithreaded code (IE, most of the time stuff just ends up serialized!)...

I'd like to rework this code to make it more robust and perform better. There are basically two ways I could do this: I could use the new multiprocessing module in 2.6+ or I could go for a reactor / event-based model of some sort. I would rather do the later since it's far simpler and less error-prone.

So the question relates to what framework would be best suited to my needs. The following is a list of the options I know about so far:

• Twisted: The granddaddy of Python reactor frameworks: seems complex and a bit bloated however. Steep learning curve for a small task.
• Eventlet: From the guys at lindenlab. Greenlet based framework that's geared towards these kinds of tasks. I had a look at the code though and it's not too pretty: non-pep8 compliant, scattered with prints (why do people do this in a framework!?), API seems a little inconsistent.
• PyEv: Immature, doesn't seem to be anyone using it right now though it is based on libevent so it's got a solid backend.
• asyncore: From the stdlib: über low-level, seems like a lot of legwork involved just to get something off the ground.
• tornado: Though this is a server oriented product designed to server dynamic websites it does feature an async HTTP client and a simple ioloop. Looks like it could get the job done but not what it was intended for. [edit: doesn't run on Windows unfortunately, which counts it out for me - its a requirement for me to support this lame platform]

Is there anything I have missed at all? Surely there must be a library out there that fits the sweet-spot of a simplified async networking library!

[edit: big thanks to intgr for his pointer to this page. If you scroll to the bottom you will see there is a really nice list of projects that aim to tackle this task in one way or another. It seems actually that things have indeed moved on since the inception of Twisted: people now seem to favour a co-routine based solution rather than a traditional reactor / callback oriented one. The benefits of this approach are clearer more direct code: I've certainly found in the past, especially when working with boost.asio in C++ that callback based code can lead to designs that can be hard-to-follow and are relatively obscure to the untrained eye. Using co-routines allows you to write code that looks a little more synchronous at least. I guess now my task is to work out which one of these many libraries I like the look of and give it a go! Glad I asked now...]

[edit: perhaps of interest to anyone who followed or stumbled on this this question or cares about this topic in any sense: I found a really great writeup of the current state of the available tools for this job]

Aforesaid

Python is multithreaded, it just doesn't allow two threads to run Python code concurrently. – Lurlenelurline

@Intgr: indeed it is, so in theory since socket is a C module, if they are letting the GIL go before calling the underlying routine things might actually be concurrent. Even still, I think I want to go back to something single-threaded. – Aforesaid

I've learned much more from your question than from answers to it. – Hernandes

@Denis: heh, thanks I guess! There have been some good pointers in the answers too, specifically intgr's. I knew about a lot of the options out there and I didn't just want the answers packed with those so I thought I'd go to the trouble of spelling out what I knew :) – Aforesaid

> people now seem to favour a co-routine based solution rather than a traditional reactor / callback oriented one This is not a sensible comparison. "co-routine based solutions" and "reactor oriented" solutions are orthogonal. (Ignoring the fact that Python does not have coroutines) Take a look at Twisted's inlineCallbacks to see how you can have the programming style you seem to prefer with a robust, mature networking layer that's not going to expose you to complex platform idiosyncrasies. – Gooseberry

@Jean-Paul Calderone: OK, I will look at inlineCallbacks, which are new to me. As I've said before, there is a steep learning curve with twisted, where do I start for a the kind of small task I want to perform? Anyway, I guess why some people see co-routines as a good alternative is summarised here: weightless.io/background but you are right: I'm sure any of the co-routine implementations for Python could be used with Twisted in theory. And yes, Python doesn't co-routines out of the box, but you can add them easily enough. – Aforesaid

@Jean-Paul Calderone: You can implement coroutines in plain Python using generator functions (yes it's a hack but they are still coroutines). – Lurlenelurline

I don't understand Twisted. It seems to want to implement every protocol in the world, oh yeah, and wants to work with any event loop in the world without the user setting it up (GTK, etc). Would have been nice if there was something asynchronous that just lets you stack protocols however you want. – Adrieneadrienne

@Longpoke: Twisted is something asynchronous that just lets you stack protocols however you want :). I gave a talk about, among other things, how lightweight it is. See here pycon.tv/#/video/58 – Nilson

Any chance for an update to this question and/or answers to reflect the current state-of-the-art? – Cellarage

A few points to add: 1. Tornado runs very well on Windows. It's just not as performant and scalable because it uses select for the I/O multiplexing. But you should be able to get a decent performance out of it with tornado-pyuv. 2. There is now asyncio in Python 3.3+ and its backport trollius which allows to run any Tornado application in its event loop (Twisted will be supported soon). – Snicker

Answer 1

I liked the concurrence Python module which relies on either Stackless Python microthreads or Greenlets for light-weight threading. All blocking network I/O is transparently made asynchronous through a single libevent loop, so it should be nearly as efficient as an real asynchronous server.

I suppose it's similar to Eventlet in this way.

The downside is that its API is quite different from Python's sockets/threading modules; you need to rewrite a fair bit of your application (or write a compatibility shim layer)

Edit: It seems that there's also cogen, which is similar, but uses Python 2.5's enhanced generators for its coroutines, instead of Greenlets. This makes it more portable than concurrence and other alternatives. Network I/O is done directly with epoll/kqueue/iocp.

Lurlenelurline

@intgr: great links. I had seen both of those before once upon-a-time, those are the sorts of things I was hoping to see flushed out. +1 – Aforesaid

Looks like concurrence is a dead project with their being the last update four years ago. – Reginiaregiomontanus

project is dead, so does Hyves! – Cetinje

A lot has happened since Python 2.5. asyncio in Python 3.5 is great. – Judicatory

Answer 2

Twisted is complex, you're right about that. Twisted is not bloated.

If you take a look here: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/trunk/twisted you'll find an organized, comprehensive, and very well tested suite of many protocols of the internet, as well as helper code to write and deploy very sophisticated network applications. I wouldn't confuse bloat with comprehensiveness.

It's well known that the Twisted documentation isn't the most user-friendly from first glance, and I believe this turns away an unfortunate number of people. But Twisted is amazing (IMHO) if you put in the time. I did and it proved to be worth it, and I'd recommend to others to try the same.

Tanta

@clemesha: maybe you are right, and it's not bloadted, but it does feel like there is rather a bit too much to get my head around to do something simple. I understand async programming, I've worked in C++ with boost::asio so the concepts are not new, but its all the gumph that compes with doing twisted stuff: it's a whole new world, much like django is for web stuff. Again when i'm doing web stuff I work with lightweight WSGI code and plug together only what i need. Horses for courses I guess. – Aforesaid

@clemesha: erm, I took the plunge today to have a look: twisted weighs in at 20MB! Even the core is 12MB....if that isn't bloated, I'm not sure quite what is. – Aforesaid

The basic Twisted APIs are pretty small (reactor, deferred, protocol). Most of the Twisted code is async protocol implementations using those basics. "Bloat" is not a useful adjective here (or indeed in most cases). Twisted's size is reasonable for the amount of stuff it does. – Knurl

Answer 3

gevent is eventlet cleaned up.

API-wise it follows the same conventions as the standard library (in particular, threading and multiprocessing modules) where it makes sense. So you have familiar things like Queue and Event to work with.

It only supports libevent (update: libev since 1.0) as reactor implementation but takes full advantage of it, featuring a fast WSGI server based on libevent-http and resolving DNS queries through libevent-dns as opposed to using a thread pool like most other libraries do. (update: since 1.0 c-ares is used to make async DNS queries; threadpool is also an option.)

Like eventlet, it makes the callbacks and Deferreds unnecessary by using greenlets.

Check out the examples: concurrent download of multiple urls, long polling webchat.

Discerning

I'll second gevent -- After reviewing many of the solutions, gevent worked very well for me. It allowed me to retain the better part of my existing program, and the changes that were required were trivial -- Best of all, if the code needs to be maintained in 3, 4, 5, ... years time, it still makes sense to anyone not familiar with gevent, the biggest showstopper for Twisted is the strong learning curve, this causes problems not just when implementing, but also further down the line during maintenance... – Sizing

Answer 4

A really interesting comparison of such frameworks was compiled by Nicholas Piël on his blog: it's well worth a read!

Aforesaid

While I agree that article was an interesting read, I think it's worthwhile to consider the validity of the presented benchmarks. See the comments here: reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ahepg/… – Tanta

@clemesha, while the point in that reddit page is worth noting, the benchmark was done on a dual core machine and likely was not suffering from fatal flaw described. I suppose it's possible both the client and server ran on the same core, but it doesn't seem likely. – Farthermost

Answer 5

None of these solutions will avoid that fact that the GIL prevents CPU parallelism - they are just better ways of getting IO parallelism that you already have with threads. If you think you can do better IO, by all means pursue one of these, but if your bottleneck is in processing the results nothing here will help except for the multiprocessing module.

Katy

What's wrong with using multiple processes? – Erin

Nothing at all, hence the suggestion to use the multiprocessing module. – Katy

Answer 6

I wouldn't go as far as to call Twisted bloated, but it is difficult to wrap your head around. I avoided really settling in an learn for quite a while as I always wanted something a little easier for 'small tasks'.

However, now that I have worked with it some more I have to say having all the batteries included is VERY nice.

All the other async libraries I've worked with end being way less mature than they even appear. Twisted's event loop is solid.

I'm not quite sure how to solve the steep Twisted learning curve. It might help if someone would fork it and clean a few things up, like removing all the backwards compatability cruft and the dead projects. But that's the nature of mature software I guess.

Taskwork

If you ever looked up how the gtk reactor is implemented under Windows (hardcore polling every 10ms: twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/trunk/twisted/internet/…), you wouldn't call that "mature"... – Snicker

Hi @schlamar. This nasty hack was implemented as a workaround for some pretty serious bugs in GTK+, back in the day when there was much less concern about power efficiency :). But, the beauty of Twisted is that we can have this bug once, fix it in the framework, and our users don't need to be concerned about it. Would you like to contribute a fix that addresses this problem and gets rid of (deprecates and then later removes) PortableGtkReactor? – Nilson

@Nilson I added helpful advice on twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/4744#comment:2 if someone else wants to tackle this issue, because some of theses issues still exist. BTW, you could have solved this much more efficiently by scheduling callbacks between the two event loops. – Snicker

Answer 7

Kamaelia hasn't been mentioned yet. Its concurrency model is based on wiring together components with message passing between inboxes and outboxes. Here's a brief overview.

Elsewhere

I used kamaelia for an app - it was extremely painful. IMHO there are other, better options for concurrenct in python (most of which are mentioned above) – Mariomariology

Answer 8

I've started to use twisted for some things. The beauty of it almost is because it's "bloated." There are connectors for just about any of the main protocols out there. You can have a jabber bot that will take commands and post to an irc server, email them to someone, run a command, read from an NNTP server, and monitor a web page for changes. The bad news is it can do all of that and can make things overly complex for simple tasks like the OP explained. The advantage of python though is you only include what you need. So while the download may be 20mb, you may only include 2mb of libraries (which is still a lot). My biggest complaint with twisted is although they include examples, anything beyond a basic tcp server you're on your own.

While not a python solution, I've seen node.js gain a lot more traction as of late. In fact I've considered looking into it for smaller projects but I just cringe when I hear javascript :)

Median

I am a big Python fan. – Check out “Javascript – The good parts” from Douglas Crockford (3, 4 videos). And peek at CoffeeScript. It turns out JS has things Python should have, except the Syntax, haha. CS tried to mitigate that, but is a little clumsy on that... – Timework

Answer 9

There is a good book on the subject: "Twisted Network Programming Essentials", by Abe Fettig. The examples show how to write very Pythonic code, and to me personally, do not strike me as based on a bloated framework. Look at the solutions in the book, if they aren't clean, then I don't know what clean means.

My only enigma is the same I have with other frameworks, like Ruby. I worry, does it scale up? I would hate to commit a client to a framework that is going to have scalability problems.

Wortman

Answer 10

Whizzer is a tiny asynchronous socket framework that uses pyev. Its very fast, primarily because of pyev. It attempts to provide a similiar interface as twisted with some slight changes.

Weylin

Answer 11

Also try Syncless. It's coroutine-based (so it's similar to Concurrence, Eventlet and gevent). It implements drop-in non-blocking replacements for socket.socket, socket.gethostbyname (etc.), ssl.SSLSocket, time.sleep and select.select. It's fast. It needs Stackless Python and libevent. It contains a mandatory Python extension written in C (Pyrex/Cython).

Tradescantia

Answer 12

I Confirm the goodness of syncless. It can use libev (the newer, cleaner and better performance version of libevent). A while ago it didn't have as much support as libevent, but now the development process is more advanced and syncless very useful.

Io

Answer 13

If you just want a Simplified, lightweight HTTP Request Library then I find Unirest really good

Efficiency

Answer 14

You are welcome to have a look at PyWorks, which takes a quite different approach. It lets object instances run in their own thread and makes function call's to that object async.

Just let a class inherit from Task instead of object and it is async, all methods calls are Proxies. Return values (if you need them) are Future proxies.

res = obj.method( args )
# code continues here without waiting for method to finish
do_something_else( )
print "Result = %d" % res # Code will block here, if res not calculated yet

PyWorks can be found on http://bitbucket.org/raindog/pyworks

Adrianeadrianna

While this is interesting and might be suitable for some tasks, using threads for networking performs bad (especially on Python due to the GIL). And this was exactly the question: an evented framework or with multiprocessing. So your answer is clearly out of scope... – Snicker